Comments on: The Race Is On…Demand!!! Blackbaud signals move to open platform http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform Confessions of a Non-Profit Executive Director Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:46:18 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Brian http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-37822 Brian Tue, 31 Jul 2007 06:04:13 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-37822 Just because it's not blogged about doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (Wow, that's a lot of double negatives!) Type in "Fundraising Software" or even "Fundraising Software Blog" in Google. It's not cheap being listed in positions 1-10, plus you have the pay per clicks at the top of the page. Non Profits don't get blogs- they are too busy working endless hours on their mission. However, there are some that do- they read this and that, visit blogbaud and Tech soup, goto conferences such as AFP, CASE and the like. I really like your writing style, and your 'get-it-from-the-source' attitude. Reach out to what you think are the small players and you will be surprised what you see and hear- I know I have and it's really helped expand my consultancy. My .02 - keep the updates going! Just because it’s not blogged about doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. (Wow, that’s a lot of double negatives!)

Type in “Fundraising Software” or even “Fundraising Software Blog” in Google.

It’s not cheap being listed in positions 1-10, plus you have the pay per clicks at the top of the page.

Non Profits don’t get blogs- they are too busy working endless hours on their mission. However, there are some that do- they read this and that, visit blogbaud and Tech soup, goto conferences such as AFP, CASE and the like.

I really like your writing style, and your ‘get-it-from-the-source’ attitude. Reach out to what you think are the small players and you will be surprised what you see and hear- I know I have and it’s really helped expand my consultancy.

My .02 – keep the updates going!

]]> By: Allan Benamer http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-37765 Allan Benamer Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:47:15 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-37765 I don't see anything wrong with your argument except that no one really gets excited by DonorPerfect or Sage or Etapestry. Where are the blogs that discuss any of these three players? If DonorPerfect has been so open for so long, where's their ecosystem? A quick Google search on "donorperfect api" brings up this blog as the third search result. Frankly, that's a horrible record for developer relations. Sage is more well known for its accounting software than for its CRM software. I doubt a substantial percentage of their revenue is coming from their fundraising software. And if the argument is that 1/2 of all nonprofits will keep their tech in-house for the next five years is true, then the sector is in a sorrier state than I thought. I usually dislike arguments based on what everyone else will do. It's a terrible way to start off a business case. I would suggest that cutting-edge nonprofits and well-run nonprofits have a duty to look at online CRMs that have open APIs and decent developer communities. It's the only way to maximize your return on expensive software. I would LOVE to see the other competition take off but where's the developer love? Show me some good links if you've got them. I don’t see anything wrong with your argument except that no one really gets excited by DonorPerfect or Sage or Etapestry. Where are the blogs that discuss any of these three players? If DonorPerfect has been so open for so long, where’s their ecosystem? A quick Google search on “donorperfect api” brings up this blog as the third search result. Frankly, that’s a horrible record for developer relations.

Sage is more well known for its accounting software than for its CRM software. I doubt a substantial percentage of their revenue is coming from their fundraising software.

And if the argument is that 1/2 of all nonprofits will keep their tech in-house for the next five years is true, then the sector is in a sorrier state than I thought. I usually dislike arguments based on what everyone else will do. It’s a terrible way to start off a business case. I would suggest that cutting-edge nonprofits and well-run nonprofits have a duty to look at online CRMs that have open APIs and decent developer communities. It’s the only way to maximize your return on expensive software.

I would LOVE to see the other competition take off but where’s the developer love? Show me some good links if you’ve got them.

]]> By: Brian http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-37712 Brian Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:30:24 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-37712 I'm not sure that your argument can be supported when the majority of larger non profit organizations prefer to keep their database in house. Despite the economics and advantages that SaaS can have, you are still dealing with decision makers that are unable or unwilling to take what they see as a risky decision and off-source their database. I would imagine that at least 1/2 of all non profit organizations will prefer to keep their technology in house, and I don't see that rising at all in the near future (which for the NP world is at least 5 years- even the short term takes longer). The real threat to Blackbaud isn't actually from any of the competitors you mentioned. It's going to come from the literal army of smaller but growing players that actually have clients and a large, meaningful customer base. DonorPerfect, Etapestry, and Sage combined have more clients than Blackbaud. Etapestry actually has a fairly complete web-centric model. DonorPerfect Online has been 'open' through their XML API for over 4 years. Sage, of course, has Sage behind it which is larger than both BlackBaud and Salesforce, in annual revenues, COMBINED. Ask any Blackbaud salesrep who they thing their competition is- you'll find the real answer there. I’m not sure that your argument can be supported when the majority of larger non profit organizations prefer to keep their database in house. Despite the economics and advantages that SaaS can have, you are still dealing with decision makers that are unable or unwilling to take what they see as a risky decision and off-source their database.

I would imagine that at least 1/2 of all non profit organizations will prefer to keep their technology in house, and I don’t see that rising at all in the near future (which for the NP world is at least 5 years- even the short term takes longer).

The real threat to Blackbaud isn’t actually from any of the competitors you mentioned. It’s going to come from the literal army of smaller but growing players that actually have clients and a large, meaningful customer base. DonorPerfect, Etapestry, and Sage combined have more clients than Blackbaud. Etapestry actually has a fairly complete web-centric model. DonorPerfect Online has been ‘open’ through their XML API for over 4 years. Sage, of course, has Sage behind it which is larger than both BlackBaud and Salesforce, in annual revenues, COMBINED.

Ask any Blackbaud salesrep who they thing their competition is- you’ll find the real answer there.

]]> By: Allan Benamer http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24566 Allan Benamer Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:10:52 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24566 I think we'll just have to respectfully disagree on that point. Obviously, <a href="http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/more-on-the-salesforcecom-nonprofit-roadmap-summit" rel="nofollow">my feelings on the matter are different</a> than yours. I really do think that the community of developers is fast growing. If you had seen been at the NTEN NTC and at that salesforce.com summit, you would have seen the energy and dedication that I had. The cost of becoming a Salesforce.com developer is $0 compared to the cost of being a Blackbaud developer ($15k). That alone guarantees faster growth for Salesforce.com's developer community in the nonprofit sector. Your Oracle and Peoplesoft examples miss the mark for me since those were your classic client-server products. SaaS is a disruptive technology like the Web was and continues to be. It's clear the marketplace's current momentum is such that SaaS will be the preferred delivery mechanism for enterprise software. This is a moment of opportunity for all nonprofit enterprise vendors. It promises new kinds of competition and a shaking out of the market. And part of that momentum comes from the fact that you don't need an expensive infrastructure of servers and the admins for them to maintain an RE installation. Who among us wants to keep feeding the beast that we call our RE database server, dealing with the updates and the deployments to client workstations? I think that alone should be a clear benefit to harried IT directors looking to get out of the sys admin business. I think we’ll just have to respectfully disagree on that point. Obviously, my feelings on the matter are different than yours. I really do think that the community of developers is fast growing. If you had seen been at the NTEN NTC and at that salesforce.com summit, you would have seen the energy and dedication that I had. The cost of becoming a Salesforce.com developer is $0 compared to the cost of being a Blackbaud developer ($15k). That alone guarantees faster growth for Salesforce.com’s developer community in the nonprofit sector. Your Oracle and Peoplesoft examples miss the mark for me since those were your classic client-server products. SaaS is a disruptive technology like the Web was and continues to be. It’s clear the marketplace’s current momentum is such that SaaS will be the preferred delivery mechanism for enterprise software. This is a moment of opportunity for all nonprofit enterprise vendors. It promises new kinds of competition and a shaking out of the market.

And part of that momentum comes from the fact that you don’t need an expensive infrastructure of servers and the admins for them to maintain an RE installation. Who among us wants to keep feeding the beast that we call our RE database server, dealing with the updates and the deployments to client workstations? I think that alone should be a clear benefit to harried IT directors looking to get out of the sys admin business.

]]> By: David Zeidman http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24528 David Zeidman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:44:30 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24528 Blackbaud is not the large gigantic company that Salesforce.com is. However in the eyes of the NPTech community there is definitely a role reversal. Just because a vendor is large in the for-profit arena does not mean they will succeed in the not-for-profit. Just look at the not-for-profit products that Oracle and Peoplesoft (prior to being swallowed by Oracle) produced. Despite their relative sizes they have not broken into the NP market with any degree of success. I am sure that Salesforce.com have a fighting chance but I am just not convinced that there is a community of independent developers out there ready to write those essential add on modules that not for profits will not only require but demand if Salesforce.com is to work for them. David Blackbaud is not the large gigantic company that Salesforce.com is. However in the eyes of the NPTech community there is definitely a role reversal. Just because a vendor is large in the for-profit arena does not mean they will succeed in the not-for-profit. Just look at the not-for-profit products that Oracle and Peoplesoft (prior to being swallowed by Oracle) produced. Despite their relative sizes they have not broken into the NP market with any degree of success.

I am sure that Salesforce.com have a fighting chance but I am just not convinced that there is a community of independent developers out there ready to write those essential add on modules that not for profits will not only require but demand if Salesforce.com is to work for them.

David

]]> By: Allan Benamer http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24368 Allan Benamer Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:53:17 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24368 David, You've got the players mixed up. Blackbaud is not the large gigantic company. That's salesforce.com. Compare revenues for both. Now compare head count. And after that, compare developer communities. salesforce.com is simultaneously large and nimble. They're a double threat. Also, Blackbaud's Infinity platform has yet to be released and EVEN if it was out today, it would not be open enough to support an ecosystem of developers like that for salesforce. And moving away from COM to .NET should have happened years ago. The real move that has to happen is from COM to SaaS which should be happening NOW. salesforce.com isn't "free". It's free for up to ten users. After that, you have to pay but it is heavily discounted. Out of the box, it's not a great package for nonprofits because the templates aren't there but I think sooner or later people will start productizing software for salesforce.com. I have a lot more confidence in the ability of ISVs (you know, people like you) to customize a package en masse than the single sole provider of the original software. I think Blackbaud is still a feasible choice but only if you're looking at a one year timeframe. IT Directors have to think ahead. I suspect many more will see the writing on the wall and try to avoid the data integration pains that come with RE. David,

You’ve got the players mixed up. Blackbaud is not the large gigantic company. That’s salesforce.com. Compare revenues for both. Now compare head count. And after that, compare developer communities. salesforce.com is simultaneously large and nimble. They’re a double threat. Also, Blackbaud’s Infinity platform has yet to be released and EVEN if it was out today, it would not be open enough to support an ecosystem of developers like that for salesforce. And moving away from COM to .NET should have happened years ago. The real move that has to happen is from COM to SaaS which should be happening NOW.

salesforce.com isn’t “free”. It’s free for up to ten users. After that, you have to pay but it is heavily discounted. Out of the box, it’s not a great package for nonprofits because the templates aren’t there but I think sooner or later people will start productizing software for salesforce.com. I have a lot more confidence in the ability of ISVs (you know, people like you) to customize a package en masse than the single sole provider of the original software.

I think Blackbaud is still a feasible choice but only if you’re looking at a one year timeframe. IT Directors have to think ahead. I suspect many more will see the writing on the wall and try to avoid the data integration pains that come with RE.

]]> By: David Zeidman http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24320 David Zeidman Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:55:28 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24320 I think that your analysis assumes Blackbaud is not innovating for their future. Clearly it is a big risk that a smaller nimble company can come along and produce a technological discontinuity in the market breaking down an incumbent’s role as the dominant player. However this assumes that the incumbent, i.e. Blackbaud is simply churning out much of the same. Whether this is true or not has yet to be proven. Innovative or not, their new Infinity platform does resolve many of the problems faced by larger organizations that would otherwise use large for-profit based software platforms (often in combination with The Raiser's Edge). The move away from COM based technology (long overdue) to .NET and SOAP and a system that is highly configurable and web deployable is a start. Added to this broader picture is the focus on the minutiae. The introduction of mobile services (text or SMS messaging to donors as well as mobile web usage) is certainly an innovation not seen integrated into other applications. It is too early to know if this will be enough to keep Blackbaud in the dominant position they currently find themselves in. I am not convinced that open source "free" software is the panacea that you have often alluded to. In the same vein I am do not believe that Salesforce.com will make enormous strides into the not-for-profit market. Their base is the for-profit world and despite their open API the adaptations that are required to make it work for the not-for-profit arena require enormous investment. More than simply mashups are required for it to be really useful. I would gladly be proven wrong but I have yet to see, in practice, the "onslaught of multiple consultants using an open platform" that you refer to. When organizations look to move to another software platform they would be naive to think that free is best. What they ought to be looking for is a truly sustainable platform that can change with their needs. My vote is still with Blackbaud at least for the time being. David I think that your analysis assumes Blackbaud is not innovating for their future. Clearly it is a big risk that a smaller nimble company can come along and produce a technological discontinuity in the market breaking down an incumbent’s role as the dominant player. However this assumes that the incumbent, i.e. Blackbaud is simply churning out much of the same. Whether this is true or not has yet to be proven. Innovative or not, their new Infinity platform does resolve many of the problems faced by larger organizations that would otherwise use large for-profit based software platforms (often in combination with The Raiser’s Edge). The move away from COM based technology (long overdue) to .NET and SOAP and a system that is highly configurable and web deployable is a start. Added to this broader picture is the focus on the minutiae. The introduction of mobile services (text or SMS messaging to donors as well as mobile web usage) is certainly an innovation not seen integrated into other applications. It is too early to know if this will be enough to keep Blackbaud in the dominant position they currently find themselves in.

I am not convinced that open source “free” software is the panacea that you have often alluded to. In the same vein I am do not believe that Salesforce.com will make enormous strides into the not-for-profit market. Their base is the for-profit world and despite their open API the adaptations that are required to make it work for the not-for-profit arena require enormous investment. More than simply mashups are required for it to be really useful. I would gladly be proven wrong but I have yet to see, in practice, the “onslaught of multiple consultants using an open platform” that you refer to.

When organizations look to move to another software platform they would be naive to think that free is best. What they ought to be looking for is a truly sustainable platform that can change with their needs. My vote is still with Blackbaud at least for the time being.

David

]]> By: abenamer http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24305 abenamer Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:00:45 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24305 I don't know -- NetCommunity seems to have engendered very little enthusiasm. No one blogs about it and it doesn't seem to be the focus of any concerted marketing push by Blackbaud. I don’t know — NetCommunity seems to have engendered very little enthusiasm. No one blogs about it and it doesn’t seem to be the focus of any concerted marketing push by Blackbaud.

]]> By: paulmorriss http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24230 paulmorriss Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:25:15 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24230 Why do you think NetCommunity isn't being talked about much? Why do you think NetCommunity isn’t being talked about much?

]]> By: Allan Benamer http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform/comment-page-1#comment-24213 Allan Benamer Tue, 19 Jun 2007 05:38:14 +0000 http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/the-race-is-ondemand-blackbaud-signals-move-to-open-platform#comment-24213 Totally agree with you. I can't wait to see how it will all play out. Totally agree with you. I can’t wait to see how it will all play out.

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