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	<title>Comments on: N00bs in philanthropy</title>
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	<description>Confessions of a Non-Profit Executive Director</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy/comment-page-1#comment-95210</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stephanie Strom: &quot;P.S. At least this nOOb knows that Elie did not engage in sockpuppetry, so far as we know to date.&quot;

Are you the Stephanie Strom who wrote the NYTimes article about Elie&#039;s self-admitted sockpuppetry and the resultant punishment/fine? The one that was published on the 15th of January, three days before your &quot;so far as we know to date&quot; assessment? This one: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/15givewell.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie Strom: &#8220;P.S. At least this nOOb knows that Elie did not engage in sockpuppetry, so far as we know to date.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you the Stephanie Strom who wrote the NYTimes article about Elie&#8217;s self-admitted sockpuppetry and the resultant punishment/fine? The one that was published on the 15th of January, three days before your &#8220;so far as we know to date&#8221; assessment? This one: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/15givewell.html?_r=1&#038;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/15givewell.html?_r=1&#038;oref=slogin</a> ?</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Benamer</title>
		<link>http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy/comment-page-1#comment-95202</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Benamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy#comment-95202</guid>
		<description>Hehe... that&#039;s one of the reasons I wrote this blog. I&#039;ve found though that it&#039;s not a matter of technology but more like the mindset necessary to use the tools correctly. I&#039;ve been in an online group of one kind or another since I was 16. That&#039;s something like 21 years of  online activity. (Man, I&#039;m a geezer) And generally speaking, you don&#039;t get points by accusing entire communities of some odious activity. 

You should also check out Beth&#039;s Blog at http://beth.typepad.com. Beth tries to gently introduce social media tools to nonprofits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hehe&#8230; that&#8217;s one of the reasons I wrote this blog. I&#8217;ve found though that it&#8217;s not a matter of technology but more like the mindset necessary to use the tools correctly. I&#8217;ve been in an online group of one kind or another since I was 16. That&#8217;s something like 21 years of  online activity. (Man, I&#8217;m a geezer) And generally speaking, you don&#8217;t get points by accusing entire communities of some odious activity. </p>
<p>You should also check out Beth&#8217;s Blog at <a href="http://beth.typepad.com" rel="nofollow">http://beth.typepad.com</a>. Beth tries to gently introduce social media tools to nonprofits.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy/comment-page-1#comment-95201</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy#comment-95201</guid>
		<description>It is often completely stunning to me just how out of touch the nonprofit sector remains when it comes to technology. As I have often found a lot of satisfaction in working to bring this part of the business world up to date and into cutting edge technology, I feel like I am often pulling teeth. 

Getting the private sector to update, and adopt technology is often not easy. Getting a nonprofit organization to see the value in updating or adopt a new technology is like fighting a boxing match!

Trying to move this sector into not only adopting but understanding new technology is an ever harder battle to fight. In the end though.. I think its important that it happens, and its worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is often completely stunning to me just how out of touch the nonprofit sector remains when it comes to technology. As I have often found a lot of satisfaction in working to bring this part of the business world up to date and into cutting edge technology, I feel like I am often pulling teeth. </p>
<p>Getting the private sector to update, and adopt technology is often not easy. Getting a nonprofit organization to see the value in updating or adopt a new technology is like fighting a boxing match!</p>
<p>Trying to move this sector into not only adopting but understanding new technology is an ever harder battle to fight. In the end though.. I think its important that it happens, and its worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Benamer</title>
		<link>http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy/comment-page-1#comment-95197</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Benamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy#comment-95197</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Stephanie, for responding. 

It&#039;s important here to separate the community from the software that runs it. I don&#039;t consider it censorship if everyone has pretty much the same access levels to creating posts on the site. Getting lambasted by your peers in the community may lead to opprobrium for you but it&#039;s not the same as having the software prevent you from posting. That&#039;s what I mean by online communities being fundamentally democratic in that the means to posting is equally accessible to everyone.

For the MetaFilter community, your assertion that democracy should not be &quot;snobbish&quot;won&#039;t make any sense to them. The software pretty much allows everyone to be treated equally -- assuming that everyone can read enough English to follow directions, they can post. 

When I say lurk, it&#039;s really a good idea. It&#039;s a tactical consideration instead of a strategic one. If your end goal is to have your voice heard, lurking is a great preliminary tactic to understanding the folkways of the online community you&#039;re entering. It doesn&#039;t imply that you should be meek when you finally do post. However, lurking will give you an opportunity to phrase your initial posts in a way that is acceptable to members in that community. It&#039;s really quite common and I don&#039;t think it implies self-censorship.

Another point you make is understandable but not really of tactical use when engaging an online community:

&quot;Seems to me that a true democracy would welcome the addition of &#039;n00bs&#039; and their literary references as another perspective, not an annoying dissonance that should be shamed and harassed into compliance.&quot;

I said fundamentally democratic, not wholly democratic. ;) The platform for democratic action is there but Web-based communities have leaders and followers just like any meatspace community and there&#039;s no guarantee that the Web will follow some platonic ideal of community any more than an offline one will. These communities are built on software platforms that guarantee access, they don&#039;t guarantee people listening to you and the software will not protect you from getting harassed.

The point you make about MetaFilter&#039;s demographic composition, their whiteness and their Asianness, their youth etc., doesn&#039;t really apply to other Web communities. My comments on n00bism actually apply to many kinds of Web communities, not just MetaFilter. Simply put, you&#039;ll be treated as a n00b by multiple communities if you fail to observe their customs.

For many communities, it might not be necessary to lurk but mature and large communities definitely have their own customs. I&#039;m not a professional news person like you Stephanie, but were I to jump into newser or any of the host of journalism forums, I&#039;d probably find myself running into a whole host of professional attitudes and jargon that I would have to learn about.

P.S. You really didn&#039;t think Elie had a sockpuppet named Talia? I thought he had confessed to this and was assessed a fine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Stephanie, for responding. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s important here to separate the community from the software that runs it. I don&#8217;t consider it censorship if everyone has pretty much the same access levels to creating posts on the site. Getting lambasted by your peers in the community may lead to opprobrium for you but it&#8217;s not the same as having the software prevent you from posting. That&#8217;s what I mean by online communities being fundamentally democratic in that the means to posting is equally accessible to everyone.</p>
<p>For the MetaFilter community, your assertion that democracy should not be &#8220;snobbish&#8221;won&#8217;t make any sense to them. The software pretty much allows everyone to be treated equally &#8212; assuming that everyone can read enough English to follow directions, they can post. </p>
<p>When I say lurk, it&#8217;s really a good idea. It&#8217;s a tactical consideration instead of a strategic one. If your end goal is to have your voice heard, lurking is a great preliminary tactic to understanding the folkways of the online community you&#8217;re entering. It doesn&#8217;t imply that you should be meek when you finally do post. However, lurking will give you an opportunity to phrase your initial posts in a way that is acceptable to members in that community. It&#8217;s really quite common and I don&#8217;t think it implies self-censorship.</p>
<p>Another point you make is understandable but not really of tactical use when engaging an online community:</p>
<p>&#8220;Seems to me that a true democracy would welcome the addition of &#8216;n00bs&#8217; and their literary references as another perspective, not an annoying dissonance that should be shamed and harassed into compliance.&#8221;</p>
<p>I said fundamentally democratic, not wholly democratic. <img src='http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  The platform for democratic action is there but Web-based communities have leaders and followers just like any meatspace community and there&#8217;s no guarantee that the Web will follow some platonic ideal of community any more than an offline one will. These communities are built on software platforms that guarantee access, they don&#8217;t guarantee people listening to you and the software will not protect you from getting harassed.</p>
<p>The point you make about MetaFilter&#8217;s demographic composition, their whiteness and their Asianness, their youth etc., doesn&#8217;t really apply to other Web communities. My comments on n00bism actually apply to many kinds of Web communities, not just MetaFilter. Simply put, you&#8217;ll be treated as a n00b by multiple communities if you fail to observe their customs.</p>
<p>For many communities, it might not be necessary to lurk but mature and large communities definitely have their own customs. I&#8217;m not a professional news person like you Stephanie, but were I to jump into newser or any of the host of journalism forums, I&#8217;d probably find myself running into a whole host of professional attitudes and jargon that I would have to learn about.</p>
<p>P.S. You really didn&#8217;t think Elie had a sockpuppet named Talia? I thought he had confessed to this and was assessed a fine?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie Strom</title>
		<link>http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy/comment-page-1#comment-95196</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie Strom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonprofittechblog.org/n00bs-in-philanthropy#comment-95196</guid>
		<description>I am, decidedly unwisely, ignoring your advice to avoid being an online nOOb. 

Online communities like Metafilter may be “fundamentally democratic” — but only among their mostly young, mostly white and Asian, mostly affluent and mostly technocentric members. There’s a distinct us v. them tone to your post, which describes a system that requires new members to “lurk” on the sidelines and learn to censor themselves before participating. How is that democratic? Seems to me that a true democracy would welcome the addition of “n00bs” and their literary references as another perspective, not an annoying dissonance that should be shamed and harassed into compliance. 

One of the definitions of “democratic” is “treating persons of all classes in the same way; not snobbish.” What you’re describing seems to me the opposite of that. 

P.S. At least this nOOb knows that Elie did not engage in sockpuppetry, so far as we know to date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am, decidedly unwisely, ignoring your advice to avoid being an online nOOb. </p>
<p>Online communities like Metafilter may be “fundamentally democratic” — but only among their mostly young, mostly white and Asian, mostly affluent and mostly technocentric members. There’s a distinct us v. them tone to your post, which describes a system that requires new members to “lurk” on the sidelines and learn to censor themselves before participating. How is that democratic? Seems to me that a true democracy would welcome the addition of “n00bs” and their literary references as another perspective, not an annoying dissonance that should be shamed and harassed into compliance. </p>
<p>One of the definitions of “democratic” is “treating persons of all classes in the same way; not snobbish.” What you’re describing seems to me the opposite of that. </p>
<p>P.S. At least this nOOb knows that Elie did not engage in sockpuppetry, so far as we know to date.</p>
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